Conversations with a Local Pastor

Recently I had a great opportunity to talk with a local pastor for about two and a half hours about Mormon beliefs. He was interested of course in which church I attended. I informed him that I attend the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He responded "oh so you are Mormon!" I replied "Yes I Am!"


After a friendly exchange of questions about each others beliefs, and a few impassioned stands by each of us as to what the Bible actually taught, we kindly parted ways. Both of us agreeing that it would be enjoyable to meet again.


Many of the topics from this blog were brought up during our two and a half hour conversation. The pastor brought up three points of doctrine that I would like to include in my next three blog posts that will be coming soon. I know that some of you have made requests for questions you would like answered, I promise to get to those soon. Please stay tuned while I bring you the latest from my apologetic encounters.

Why Do Mormons Keep Secrets

Many of the critics of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accuse us of keeping "secrets" from those outside of our faith.

The truth of the matter is....we do keep secrets!

I know that many of my LDS readers will disagree with me on this point, "it is not secret, it is sacred" they will say. Even though I agree with them that we do hold things sacred, we also don't share those sacred things with just anybody, so therefore they are also secret!

What sort of things do Mormons keep secret? Well....Mormons are known for keeping secret our temple experiences. Jesus’ instructions on the Sermon on the Mount was "give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest the trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." (Matt 7:6) Yet every time our critics "expose" something holy from our temple experience they fulfill Matt 7:6. Paul spoke of these kinds of critics when he taught "Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure." (Titus 1:15)

Many of our critics try to make "secrets" look non-scriptural by quoting scriptures like Isaiah 48:16 "I have not spoken in secret from the beginning," or Luke 8:16-17 "No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel... but setteth it on a candlestick... For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest." The hope of these critics is to show that the Bible doesn't allow for secrets to be kept and that to do so must be evil!

In Eccl 3:1,7 the preacher tells us "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to keep silence, and a time to speak."

Many critics will continue to argue that neither Christ nor his disciples ever kept secrets! But what do the scriptures teach?

Let us look at some examples from the Scriptures to see if keeping a secret was an evil practice as some critics have claimed. In Mark 8:22-26 we see Jesus healing a blind man, after he was made whole the Lord told him, "Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town." In Mark 5:35-43 we see Jesus healing a girl who was dead, afterwards he gave this instruction to those who were in the room, "and he charged them straitly that no man should know it." (Mark5:43) And in Mark 7:32-36 we see Christ healing a man who was deaf and slow of speech receiving the same command "and he charged them that they should tell no man: but the more he charged them, so much the more a great deal they published it" (Mark 7:36). Why would the Lord ask them to keep these miracles a secret? Did Christ have something to hide?

The Critics of the LDS church will tell you that the Mormons are wicked because they try to hide what they do in their temples! Yet the Lord informs us in Psalms 25:14 "the secret of the Lord is with them that fear him: and he will shew them his covenant." Yes, the Lord has things which he reveals only to his people.

Look at Matt 13; here Christ has just told a few parables (which seemed to be the way he gave all his public teachings) where he has hidden the meaning of several important doctrines. He gives His reasons for this, "and the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given." (Matt 13:10-11)

Again in Matt 13:34-35, "All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them; That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world." And why is it that Christ choose to speak these truths in parables "He said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all the things are done in parables." (Mark 4:11)

When critics of the church want to try and embarrass the Mormon people they will make light of things that Christ has instructed them to keep secret. But let me ask a question: If Christ revealed a doctrine, truth, or mystery to you and asked you to keep it a secret would you?

Now before you say that Christ would never do this look at a few scriptural examples. Matt 16:15-16 "whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God." After this in verse 20 Christ tells them,"Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ." Here Christ reveals a truth that ought to be known to all who want eternal life (John 17:3) and yet Christ charges them not to reveal this truth! We know that at least one of Jesus apostles (Judas) did not listen to Jesus and he did reveal him! (Matt 26:46-49)

So who are these critics more like when they try to reveal these "Mormon temple mysteries?"

Are they more like the apostles whom Jesus charged not to reveal his secret (Matt 16:20), or like Judas, who did reveal to men who Jesus was? (Matt 26:46-49) According to Prov 11:13 "a talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter."

Jesus explained why he kept the secret that he was the Christ, instead of revealing it to the world. In Luke 22:67 the religious rulers asked him very directly "Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe." Is it any different today? The critics scream for more Mormon transparency, yet they are not looking to believe. For this very reason the Lord has asked the LDS saints to keep their temple observances a secret! The question is, will they?

Mormons and Government

Some of the most libelous information spread by the critics of the Mormon Church, is in regards to how we view government. Some criticisms accuse the Mormons of trying to overthrow the government and in other versions the Mormons are trying to take possession of government. All of these false stories are meant to taint the LDS church in the eyes of the United States government. These lies continue to be spread by critics of the LDS church to confuse the people who might otherwise want to learn more about the Mormons. Despite the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints expressing their views in our own modern day revelations, the Critics still try to regurgitate their version of the truth.

Let us look at how the LDS people view government in general.

I suggest everyone read D&C section 134 in order to better understand how the LDS are taught to view government. Here are some highlights from that section:

 "We believe that governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man; and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them, both in making laws and administering them, for the good and safety of society." (Verse 1)

"We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life." (Verse 2)

"We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside, while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected, and should be punished accordingly; and that all governments have a right to enact such laws as in their own judgments are best calculated to secure the public interest; at the same time, however, holding sacred the freedom of conscience." (Verse 5)

"We believe that every man should be honored in his station, rulers and magistrates as such, being placed for the protection of the innocent and the punishment of the guilty; and that to the laws all men owe respect and deference." (Verse 6)

"We believe that the commission of crime should be punished according to the nature of the offense; that murder, treason, robbery, theft, and the breach of the general peace, in all respects, should be punished according to their criminality and their tendency to evil among men, by the laws of that government in which the offense is committed; and for the public peace and tranquility all men should step forward and use their ability in bringing offenders against good laws to punishment." (Verse 8)

"We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied."(Verse 9)

“We believe that men should appeal to the civil law for redress of all wrongs and grievances, where personal abuse is inflicted or the right of property or character infringed, where such laws exist as will protect the same; but we believe that all men are justified in defending themselves, their friends, and property, and the government, from the unlawful assaults and encroachments of all persons in times of exigency, where immediate appeal cannot be made to the laws, and relief afforded." (Verse 11)

These are the views of the LDS people regarding government, taken from our own modern day scriptures! In addition to this we are also the only organization that I know of that has revelations claiming the United States constitution as divinely inspired.

“It is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another. And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.” (D&C 101:79-80)

So you can see for yourselves that we Mormon people believe in being law abiding citizens of whatever country they reside in. Pertaining to the government of man, we believe outside of a government ruled by Christ himself, that the US Constitution is the most approved method in place for bringing about the purposes of God.

Mormons and their Health Laws!

Many Critics of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints complain about the Mormon health law. (When critics talk about health laws they mean those things which we are commanded to take into or not to take into our bodies.)  They claim that since the LDS church has a health law we must be under the Law of Moses. 

But what do the scriptures say about God and His giving of health laws?

First off, God has always been concerned with the health of mankind.  This predates the Law of Moses.  He sometimes gives health laws without explaining the benefits of the law. Let us begin…. at the beginning.  In Gen 1:29 God tells Adam and Eve "I have given you every herb bearing seed,...and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed;  to you it shall be for meat." Here God clearly laid out what they should eat:  "every herb bearing seed" and "the fruit of a tree yielding seed." But in the next chapter God puts a Health Law restriction. He tells Adam in Gen 2:17 " But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Surely this was a health law of God’s which had nothing to do with the Law of Moses.

The thing about health laws given from God is that they are always changing. I know that the Critic will say that God never changes, but can they really believe he doesn't change his laws? An example of a health law that God changed is found in Gen 9:3-4, here the Lord tells Noah and those saved by the flood what they could and could not eat. "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the live thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat." (Gen 9:3-4) Notice the Lord had given them "every moving thing" as food the only restriction was not to eat of the blood!

God then gives a health law known as the Law of Moses which changes again the diet of God’s people. Deut 14:2-3 "For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth. Thou shalt not eat any abominable thing." The Lord then follows this with what things the people should and should not eat! What is extremely important is why the Lord decided to give them this health law.  They were a "holy people unto the Lord" and "the Lord hath chosen (them) to be a peculiar people unto himself." And so has God's people been every time he has given them a health law.

Let’s look at the changes made in the New Testament era. In Acts 10: 9-16 Peter, the head of the Church after Christ's death and ascension, is given a vision of unclean animals (according to the Law of Moses). In verse 13-15 it says "And there came a voice to him, rise Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, what God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." In Eph 5:18 Paul teaches "be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit." Many other health laws were given to the people of God which help them to become, as Peter said, "a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people." (1 Pet 2:9)

Just like God’s people in every age have been given a health law so have his people in this day and age received a health law from the Lord. This law is found in a modern day revelation known as the Doctrines and Covenants found in section 89. The Lord tells us why we would need a health law today:  "In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation." (D&C 89:4)

Some of the highlights of the “word of wisdom” include, “as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good,” (D&C 89:5) “”tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly,” (D&C 89:8) “Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving,” (D&C 89:11) “all grain is ordained for the use of man,”(D&C89:14)  and “flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I , the Lord have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving.” (D&C 89:12) These are the instructions God gave to his people as early as 1833.  Who, in this generation, could disagree with the Lord’s “word of wisdom?” And maybe the bigger question to ask is:   why would you want to?

Married for Time and All Eternity?

One of the things that Critics of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints love to belittle is our belief in Marriage! This is because the LDS people believe that marriage is not just “until death do you part,” but for time and all eternity!

The critics’ main argument comes from Matt 22:28-30 which tells the story of the Sadducees (which say that there is no resurrection: Matt 22:23) trying to trap Christ. In verse 28 Christ is asked if a woman is married and widowed seven times "in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven?”  Verse 29-30, "Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the Resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."  

The Mormon people also believe Matt 22:28-30, (see D&C132:15-17) but we view it in relation with the rest of the scriptures.

Look at how God sanctioned marriages in the scriptures! We know that "marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will Judge." ( Hebrews 13:4) This verse shows that marriage is not only honorable but must be performed before engaging in sexual acts. God will judge those who have sex outside of marriage! In 1 Tim 4:1-3 we are informed that forbidding to marry is a doctrine of devils!

But did God have in mind to make marriages eternal?

In Eccl. 3:14 we learn "whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it." And if God gives men his power, and they marry a couple for time and eternity, it would also last forever! Matt 16:19 Christ tells Peter and the other apostles "and I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." So, if the apostles bind a marriage for time and eternity Jesus promises that it will be in effect in heaven.

For the gainsayer who still refuses to believe that an eternal marriage could happen, let us look at an example of an eternal marriage in the pages of the Bible!

Gen 2:18 occurs before the fall of man, so death has not entered upon the earth. Look at what the Lord said of Adam, who at this point was an eternal being, "and the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make an help meet for him." So even as an eternal being God saw a need for man and woman to be together as "man and his wife"(Gen 2:25). For those who would say that this was not meant to be a marriage like you and I know today they should read Gen 1:28 "God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth."

In Mark 10:6-7, 9 Jesus, speaking of Adam and Eve, said "from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; ... What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."  So if God did not mean for marriage to last eternally, then why did he marry together (Adam & Eve) two eternal people?

We as an LDS people know that Marriage does not have to be for time only but it can last forever, for the scriptures so testify. See 1 Cor 11:11 "neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." Or 1 Pet 3:7 "likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife....being heirs together of the grace of life." This principle of Eternal Marriage is true and it is only taught in the Mormon Church. If our critics don't want to be married forever that is fine by us! But for the LDS people it can be said ….“they lived happily ever after!”

Thank You for Viewing This Blog!

I would like to thank all those who have viewed this blog and given me their feedback! (whether on this blog or telling me in person.) Unfortunately, I have found myself at a point in my life where I am deeply involved in projects and responsibilities. So, as a result I am trying to scale back, and one of these cutbacks will be the lengths of these blog posts. I will continue to post answers to questions/criticisms of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but they will be extremely shortened. I hope that this blog (even in its condensed form) will still provide you with insight, as you answer question about the LDS church! Once again thank you so much for your support!

Is Baptism Essential for Salvation?

One of the things that critics condemn the LDS church for is our insistence on coming to Christ through Baptism. The LDS church believes that in order to be with Jesus and our Father in heaven, an individual must be baptized. Many of our critics cry blasphemy because we teach that in order to be saved you must first be baptized. The Critic says you only need to believe in Christ and confess him with your mouth! Although many of these critics teach this; they also perform baptism. Why perform baptism if it is not needed for salvation? 

So, onto today’s question:  Is baptism essential for salvation in the kingdom of God?

The short answer to this question is "yes it is!" The Bible clearly teaches that baptism is a requirement of salvation.

Many of our Critics say that baptisms were performed in the New Testament but that when Christ died (for the sins of all mankind) he fulfilled that law and it was done away.  But to believe this means you would have to ignore the rest of what the Bible teaches. Just look at the instruction from the risen Savior in Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Does anything more needed to be said?...for the Critic the answer seems to be yes. It doesn't seem that Christ did away with the baptism for the remission of sins but rather he strengthens it by making it a requirement for salvation. We will continue this post (because there is so much more the Bible wants to say on baptism) but for the Critic to deny what the scriptures say at this point just shows their blind disbelief.

As we continue to look at baptism after the resurrection of Jesus, we find Peter and the apostles teaching the Jews about Christ. In Acts 2:37-38 the Jews begin to believe the apostles and ask "what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." According to these scriptures in Acts when a person believes in Christ he must repent of his sins, and then be baptized for the remission of those sins. Then he will receive the companionship of the Holy Ghost.

Some of the critics claim at this point, that The LDS church is replacing the Blood of Christ, which takes the sins of the world, with a dead ordinance of baptism. The truth of the matter is we are following the scriptures and Christ’s blood is the factor that makes baptism of any effect. Look at 1 Pet 3:21 "even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God)." Notice Peter understands and correctly explains that baptism is a symbol for answering to God, yet he expresses how baptism is the mode whereby we are saved.

The ordinance of baptism is a symbol of our willingness to receive Christ’s sacrifice and be forgiven of our sins. Gal 3:27: "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." Once we have "put on Christ" His sacrifice cleanses us of our sins. 

Often critics of baptism will quote Rom 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus ...thou shalt be saved." They assume that this means nothing else is necessary to be saved. But look at the part that is skipped over in verse 9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."  In order to "believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead" wouldn't you need to be baptized? Rom 6: 3-4: "Know ye not that so many of us were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death." Yet all those who refuse to be baptized or say that baptism is not needed for salvation seem to be fulfilling the words of Paul, "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16)

The Mormon church believes that Christ’s blood saves us from all our sins. But we also believe Christ has commanded us to be baptized in order to show our willingness to accept him. We know that no work of ours, independent of His, will ever save us from our sins.  Titus 3: 5:  "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration (baptism), and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

Know that Jesus did not do away with baptism as a requirement of salvation but commanded it.  John 3:3-5:  "Jesus answered...Verily, verily, I say unto thee; except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." When Nicodemus inquired how a man who was born could be "born again" Jesus answers him in verse 5,"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

What does it mean to be born of water and Spirit?

Rom 6:3-4 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Baptism is performed in such a way that it would remind us of Christ and his resurrection and our being "born of water". Look at Acts 8:12-17; here the believers were baptized by Philip but had to wait for Peter and John to give them the Holy Ghost.  Acts 8:16"(for as yet he {the Holy Ghost} was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)" Thus we see the people were born of the water but also needed to be born of the Spirit.

The question maybe asked why did Jesus and his disciples baptize people if it wasn't necessary for their salvation? The scriptures says "after these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea: and there he tarried with them, and baptized." (John 3:22) The scriptures here and elsewhere show that Christ meant baptisms to be performed for those who believed.

Even Jesus himself was baptized. Matt 3:13-15 "Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him." Why did Jesus say he needed baptism from John? "Jesus answering said unto him, suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness." Jesus, though he had no sins, knew that he must be baptized of John to please his Father in heaven, "and lo a voice from heaven saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Matt 3:17) 

The Book of Mormon prophet Nephi echoes this sentiment. 2 Nephi 31:5 “Now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water!”

Luke 7:29-30 shows us the people needed baptism to be justified. "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." Which group do you think the critic would be found in, those who "justified God" or those who "rejected the counsel of God"? Scary thought rejecting the counsel of God!

Acts 2:41 says "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized."

Look at the prison guard converted through the work of Paul and Silas in Acts 16:30-33 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway."

Even Paul that great apostle who saw a vision of the Lord and believed on him recounts his own conversion and the instruction he received in Acts 22:14-16 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

In all of these examples we see that the person(s) who believed in Christ then went through the process of being baptized in order to show that they truly received Christ. Why else would those of the New Testament age go through a process of being baptized? As it says in Col 2:12, we are "Buried with him (Jesus) in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God."

Modern revelation not only tells us that baptism is essential for salvation but that without this ordinance we will be damned.  D&C 84:74“I say unto you, they who believe not on your words, and are not baptized in water in my name, for the remission of their sins, that they may receive the Holy Ghost, shall be damned, and shall not come into my Father’s kingdom where my Father and I am. ( see also Mark 16:16)

The instruction in the Bible is clear; the Lord wants those who claim to be his to be baptized for the remission of sins, to show that they will be his followers! If they cannot take this one simple step how will they be able to do anything else the Lord commands? This ordinance is essential for Salvation!