Apostles and Prophets!

Conversations with a local Pastor #1

This post addresses the first of three issues that were brought up by the pastor of a local born-again church. I thought that it might be useful to share them with you, since he found it important enough to bring them up during our conversation. Some of the other items that we discussed during our two and half hour meeting were subjects for which I had already created blog posts! So, I will not recreate them again at this time. I hope you find the next three post valuable in your attempts to share your LDS beliefs with others.

One of the things that the pastor stated was that our belief in apostles and prophets today is not scriptural because, according to him, apostles were established as a one-time use and then discontinued.

His claims for the discontinuing of prophets was found in Heb 1:1-2; "God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son." But the LDS people believe this scripture just as it reads with no additional interpretations needed. God has spoken by the prophets and God has spoken to us by the mouth of his Son, but this doesn't mean that God will not continue to speak by the prophets or by those apostles whom he called to lead his church. The Pastor's claim for no more apostles had no scriptural reference! He informed me that since Paul and John called no more apostles, "God meant for them to be used as a transition from Old law to New law." He continued saying,"once the apostles established the Bible and set pastors in churches there was no more need for apostles!" The Pastor could not give any scriptural basis for his belief.

The LDS people "believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth." (The sixth article of faith.)   

What do the scriptures teach about prophets and apostles?

No believer in the scriptures can doubt that the Lord used prophets to teach the people of God through out the Old Testament, they conveyed the mind and will of the Lord! We can see how important they were to the work of God by reading Amos 3:7: "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." They were the organizational heads of the church of God, such examples can be seen in Moses, Joshua, Samuel, etc....  During the life of Christ, he came to fulfill the scriptures! So during his life he would give new commands to his church, such as a new sacrifice for sin (Christ), a new day to worship (Sunday instead of Saturday), new dietary laws (leaving the law of Moses but commanding not to be Drunk etc..), and yes even new leadership for his church! (moving single prophets to a collection of apostles!)

Luke 6:13 says "He called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles." Again in Mark 3:14-15 "and he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach, and to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils." Why did Jesus ordain these apostles? The scriptures teach:  "and no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God"(Heb 5:4).  So the apostles were ordained with power to perform all the miracles that were needed and to establish the church through their preaching.

Did Jesus mean that no one else should ever be called to the  apostleship as my pastor friend suggested?

Judas was one of the twelve, he betrayed Jesus, and then committed suicide, this left only eleven witnesses of Christ. If the pastor was right this would have been a good place to see a decline in the number of apostles, since they were to be phased out! But the record in Acts tells a different story. "These men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection" (Acts 1:21-22). Acts 1:23-24,26 "And they appointed two,..Barsabas,...and Matthias. and they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, and they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles." This was of course to fulfill the scriptures that another would take Judas' place. So, this of course would return the number of apostles to twelve, and then if the pastor was right from this point on no more apostles would be called! 

But the scriptures are in complete disagreement with my friend on this point because Matthias was not the only apostle called after Judas. The apostle James, the brother of John, was also killed (Acts 12:1-2). In Acts 15:13 we see another apostle called James instructing the church.  Fortunately, Paul informs us that this James the apostle was "the Lord's brother,"(Gal 1:19) he was called after James' (the brother of John) death. Speaking of Paul, we know that he was ordained as an apostle at the same time as Barnabas. In Acts 13:1-3 "there were in the church...certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas...and Saul. As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work where unto I have called them. And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away." Acts 14:14 which shows us they were ordained Apostles. These scriptural examples clearly show that apostles were meant to be called to replace the apostles which had passed on. But where is the scripture that says no more apostles will be called to lead the church? Or should the example of Acts 1:21-26 not be followed anymore? The answer: there is no scripture repealing the use of Apostles.

The scriptures instead show many examples of men being called to continue the office of apostle. Paul (one of the apostles called after the original twelve) tells us how the Lord had organized his church many times, "God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers." Eph 2:20 "(ye) are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone." Or Eph 4:11-13 "and he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teacher; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ; Till we all come in the unity of the faith , and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man."

The Lord instructed his apostles after his resurrection to " go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature"(Mark16:15).  This command of the Lord has never been rescinded or changed according to the scriptures, and by the examples of the additional apostles who were called, such as Paul, they have continued to heed this command of the Lord! 

The Pastor was correct that the apostles were killed off and John was the last recorded apostle of the Bible.  The LDS believe that this led the Christian churches from a "unity of faith" to an "apostasy" (lack of direct communication from God; no more apostles or prophets).  The Mormon people believe that God would have to once again establish apostles and prophets in the Latter-days.  

The LDS people are among a slim group of Christian churches that even believe in the scriptural necessity of having apostles to guide the Lord's church. Since the organization of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the Lord has had apostles in it. D&C 20:2-3 informs us that "Joseph Smith, Jun ...was called of God, and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the first elder of this church; And to Oliver Cowdery, who was also called of God, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the second elder of this church." From the early days of the Mormon church until today the Lord has continued to call a quorum (in other words a group) of twelve "called to be the Twelve Apostles, or special witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world-thus differing from other officers in the church in the duties of their calling."(D&C107:23)

During my conversation with the pastor he asked me "how could you be a Mormon, coming from the Bible belt of the South?" That question is one of the easiest I have ever had to answer: It is because it is the Lord's church upon this earth, and it continues to follow his pattern of having apostles and prophets etc... who lead and guide his church during these dark and final days upon the earth before his coming! 

The question I asked the pastor that I never got an answer to was: how can you claim to believe the Bible alone for your authority and not have apostles and prophets leading the church as the Bible shows you should?

Conversations with a Local Pastor

Recently I had a great opportunity to talk with a local pastor for about two and a half hours about Mormon beliefs. He was interested of course in which church I attended. I informed him that I attend the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He responded "oh so you are Mormon!" I replied "Yes I Am!"


After a friendly exchange of questions about each others beliefs, and a few impassioned stands by each of us as to what the Bible actually taught, we kindly parted ways. Both of us agreeing that it would be enjoyable to meet again.


Many of the topics from this blog were brought up during our two and a half hour conversation. The pastor brought up three points of doctrine that I would like to include in my next three blog posts that will be coming soon. I know that some of you have made requests for questions you would like answered, I promise to get to those soon. Please stay tuned while I bring you the latest from my apologetic encounters.

Why Do Mormons Keep Secrets

Many of the critics of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accuse us of keeping "secrets" from those outside of our faith.

The truth of the matter is....we do keep secrets!

I know that many of my LDS readers will disagree with me on this point, "it is not secret, it is sacred" they will say. Even though I agree with them that we do hold things sacred, we also don't share those sacred things with just anybody, so therefore they are also secret!

What sort of things do Mormons keep secret? Well....Mormons are known for keeping secret our temple experiences. Jesus’ instructions on the Sermon on the Mount was "give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest the trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." (Matt 7:6) Yet every time our critics "expose" something holy from our temple experience they fulfill Matt 7:6. Paul spoke of these kinds of critics when he taught "Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure." (Titus 1:15)

Many of our critics try to make "secrets" look non-scriptural by quoting scriptures like Isaiah 48:16 "I have not spoken in secret from the beginning," or Luke 8:16-17 "No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel... but setteth it on a candlestick... For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest." The hope of these critics is to show that the Bible doesn't allow for secrets to be kept and that to do so must be evil!

In Eccl 3:1,7 the preacher tells us "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to keep silence, and a time to speak."

Many critics will continue to argue that neither Christ nor his disciples ever kept secrets! But what do the scriptures teach?

Let us look at some examples from the Scriptures to see if keeping a secret was an evil practice as some critics have claimed. In Mark 8:22-26 we see Jesus healing a blind man, after he was made whole the Lord told him, "Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town." In Mark 5:35-43 we see Jesus healing a girl who was dead, afterwards he gave this instruction to those who were in the room, "and he charged them straitly that no man should know it." (Mark5:43) And in Mark 7:32-36 we see Christ healing a man who was deaf and slow of speech receiving the same command "and he charged them that they should tell no man: but the more he charged them, so much the more a great deal they published it" (Mark 7:36). Why would the Lord ask them to keep these miracles a secret? Did Christ have something to hide?

The Critics of the LDS church will tell you that the Mormons are wicked because they try to hide what they do in their temples! Yet the Lord informs us in Psalms 25:14 "the secret of the Lord is with them that fear him: and he will shew them his covenant." Yes, the Lord has things which he reveals only to his people.

Look at Matt 13; here Christ has just told a few parables (which seemed to be the way he gave all his public teachings) where he has hidden the meaning of several important doctrines. He gives His reasons for this, "and the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given." (Matt 13:10-11)

Again in Matt 13:34-35, "All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them; That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world." And why is it that Christ choose to speak these truths in parables "He said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all the things are done in parables." (Mark 4:11)

When critics of the church want to try and embarrass the Mormon people they will make light of things that Christ has instructed them to keep secret. But let me ask a question: If Christ revealed a doctrine, truth, or mystery to you and asked you to keep it a secret would you?

Now before you say that Christ would never do this look at a few scriptural examples. Matt 16:15-16 "whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God." After this in verse 20 Christ tells them,"Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ." Here Christ reveals a truth that ought to be known to all who want eternal life (John 17:3) and yet Christ charges them not to reveal this truth! We know that at least one of Jesus apostles (Judas) did not listen to Jesus and he did reveal him! (Matt 26:46-49)

So who are these critics more like when they try to reveal these "Mormon temple mysteries?"

Are they more like the apostles whom Jesus charged not to reveal his secret (Matt 16:20), or like Judas, who did reveal to men who Jesus was? (Matt 26:46-49) According to Prov 11:13 "a talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter."

Jesus explained why he kept the secret that he was the Christ, instead of revealing it to the world. In Luke 22:67 the religious rulers asked him very directly "Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe." Is it any different today? The critics scream for more Mormon transparency, yet they are not looking to believe. For this very reason the Lord has asked the LDS saints to keep their temple observances a secret! The question is, will they?

Mormons and Government

Some of the most libelous information spread by the critics of the Mormon Church, is in regards to how we view government. Some criticisms accuse the Mormons of trying to overthrow the government and in other versions the Mormons are trying to take possession of government. All of these false stories are meant to taint the LDS church in the eyes of the United States government. These lies continue to be spread by critics of the LDS church to confuse the people who might otherwise want to learn more about the Mormons. Despite the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints expressing their views in our own modern day revelations, the Critics still try to regurgitate their version of the truth.

Let us look at how the LDS people view government in general.

I suggest everyone read D&C section 134 in order to better understand how the LDS are taught to view government. Here are some highlights from that section:

 "We believe that governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man; and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them, both in making laws and administering them, for the good and safety of society." (Verse 1)

"We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life." (Verse 2)

"We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside, while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected, and should be punished accordingly; and that all governments have a right to enact such laws as in their own judgments are best calculated to secure the public interest; at the same time, however, holding sacred the freedom of conscience." (Verse 5)

"We believe that every man should be honored in his station, rulers and magistrates as such, being placed for the protection of the innocent and the punishment of the guilty; and that to the laws all men owe respect and deference." (Verse 6)

"We believe that the commission of crime should be punished according to the nature of the offense; that murder, treason, robbery, theft, and the breach of the general peace, in all respects, should be punished according to their criminality and their tendency to evil among men, by the laws of that government in which the offense is committed; and for the public peace and tranquility all men should step forward and use their ability in bringing offenders against good laws to punishment." (Verse 8)

"We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied."(Verse 9)

“We believe that men should appeal to the civil law for redress of all wrongs and grievances, where personal abuse is inflicted or the right of property or character infringed, where such laws exist as will protect the same; but we believe that all men are justified in defending themselves, their friends, and property, and the government, from the unlawful assaults and encroachments of all persons in times of exigency, where immediate appeal cannot be made to the laws, and relief afforded." (Verse 11)

These are the views of the LDS people regarding government, taken from our own modern day scriptures! In addition to this we are also the only organization that I know of that has revelations claiming the United States constitution as divinely inspired.

“It is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another. And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.” (D&C 101:79-80)

So you can see for yourselves that we Mormon people believe in being law abiding citizens of whatever country they reside in. Pertaining to the government of man, we believe outside of a government ruled by Christ himself, that the US Constitution is the most approved method in place for bringing about the purposes of God.

Mormons and their Health Laws!

Many Critics of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints complain about the Mormon health law. (When critics talk about health laws they mean those things which we are commanded to take into or not to take into our bodies.)  They claim that since the LDS church has a health law we must be under the Law of Moses. 

But what do the scriptures say about God and His giving of health laws?

First off, God has always been concerned with the health of mankind.  This predates the Law of Moses.  He sometimes gives health laws without explaining the benefits of the law. Let us begin…. at the beginning.  In Gen 1:29 God tells Adam and Eve "I have given you every herb bearing seed,...and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed;  to you it shall be for meat." Here God clearly laid out what they should eat:  "every herb bearing seed" and "the fruit of a tree yielding seed." But in the next chapter God puts a Health Law restriction. He tells Adam in Gen 2:17 " But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Surely this was a health law of God’s which had nothing to do with the Law of Moses.

The thing about health laws given from God is that they are always changing. I know that the Critic will say that God never changes, but can they really believe he doesn't change his laws? An example of a health law that God changed is found in Gen 9:3-4, here the Lord tells Noah and those saved by the flood what they could and could not eat. "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the live thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat." (Gen 9:3-4) Notice the Lord had given them "every moving thing" as food the only restriction was not to eat of the blood!

God then gives a health law known as the Law of Moses which changes again the diet of God’s people. Deut 14:2-3 "For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth. Thou shalt not eat any abominable thing." The Lord then follows this with what things the people should and should not eat! What is extremely important is why the Lord decided to give them this health law.  They were a "holy people unto the Lord" and "the Lord hath chosen (them) to be a peculiar people unto himself." And so has God's people been every time he has given them a health law.

Let’s look at the changes made in the New Testament era. In Acts 10: 9-16 Peter, the head of the Church after Christ's death and ascension, is given a vision of unclean animals (according to the Law of Moses). In verse 13-15 it says "And there came a voice to him, rise Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, what God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." In Eph 5:18 Paul teaches "be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit." Many other health laws were given to the people of God which help them to become, as Peter said, "a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people." (1 Pet 2:9)

Just like God’s people in every age have been given a health law so have his people in this day and age received a health law from the Lord. This law is found in a modern day revelation known as the Doctrines and Covenants found in section 89. The Lord tells us why we would need a health law today:  "In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation." (D&C 89:4)

Some of the highlights of the “word of wisdom” include, “as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good,” (D&C 89:5) “”tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly,” (D&C 89:8) “Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving,” (D&C 89:11) “all grain is ordained for the use of man,”(D&C89:14)  and “flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I , the Lord have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving.” (D&C 89:12) These are the instructions God gave to his people as early as 1833.  Who, in this generation, could disagree with the Lord’s “word of wisdom?” And maybe the bigger question to ask is:   why would you want to?

Married for Time and All Eternity?

One of the things that Critics of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints love to belittle is our belief in Marriage! This is because the LDS people believe that marriage is not just “until death do you part,” but for time and all eternity!

The critics’ main argument comes from Matt 22:28-30 which tells the story of the Sadducees (which say that there is no resurrection: Matt 22:23) trying to trap Christ. In verse 28 Christ is asked if a woman is married and widowed seven times "in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven?”  Verse 29-30, "Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the Resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."  

The Mormon people also believe Matt 22:28-30, (see D&C132:15-17) but we view it in relation with the rest of the scriptures.

Look at how God sanctioned marriages in the scriptures! We know that "marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will Judge." ( Hebrews 13:4) This verse shows that marriage is not only honorable but must be performed before engaging in sexual acts. God will judge those who have sex outside of marriage! In 1 Tim 4:1-3 we are informed that forbidding to marry is a doctrine of devils!

But did God have in mind to make marriages eternal?

In Eccl. 3:14 we learn "whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it." And if God gives men his power, and they marry a couple for time and eternity, it would also last forever! Matt 16:19 Christ tells Peter and the other apostles "and I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." So, if the apostles bind a marriage for time and eternity Jesus promises that it will be in effect in heaven.

For the gainsayer who still refuses to believe that an eternal marriage could happen, let us look at an example of an eternal marriage in the pages of the Bible!

Gen 2:18 occurs before the fall of man, so death has not entered upon the earth. Look at what the Lord said of Adam, who at this point was an eternal being, "and the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make an help meet for him." So even as an eternal being God saw a need for man and woman to be together as "man and his wife"(Gen 2:25). For those who would say that this was not meant to be a marriage like you and I know today they should read Gen 1:28 "God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth."

In Mark 10:6-7, 9 Jesus, speaking of Adam and Eve, said "from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; ... What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."  So if God did not mean for marriage to last eternally, then why did he marry together (Adam & Eve) two eternal people?

We as an LDS people know that Marriage does not have to be for time only but it can last forever, for the scriptures so testify. See 1 Cor 11:11 "neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." Or 1 Pet 3:7 "likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife....being heirs together of the grace of life." This principle of Eternal Marriage is true and it is only taught in the Mormon Church. If our critics don't want to be married forever that is fine by us! But for the LDS people it can be said ….“they lived happily ever after!”

Thank You for Viewing This Blog!

I would like to thank all those who have viewed this blog and given me their feedback! (whether on this blog or telling me in person.) Unfortunately, I have found myself at a point in my life where I am deeply involved in projects and responsibilities. So, as a result I am trying to scale back, and one of these cutbacks will be the lengths of these blog posts. I will continue to post answers to questions/criticisms of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but they will be extremely shortened. I hope that this blog (even in its condensed form) will still provide you with insight, as you answer question about the LDS church! Once again thank you so much for your support!